Comments on: The Bathtub Effect http://www.citizenrenaissance.com/2009/07/01/the-bathtub-effect/ This is a draft of a book to be published soon. Please contribute your thoughts and help finish the book. Thu, 08 Jul 2010 11:20:02 +0100 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: jules http://www.citizenrenaissance.com/2009/07/01/the-bathtub-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-1513 jules Wed, 08 Jul 2009 11:17:03 +0000 http://www.citizenrenaissance.com/?p=1949#comment-1513 Thanks William and Toby Its worth checking out Drew Weston's great book and Poltical Brain and his work here on framing and language around CC as its really helpful for thinking how we need to communicate to citizens http://www.huffingtonpost.com/drew-westen/speaking-with-americans-a_b_205598.html http://ecoamerica.net/press/media/090520/truths Thanks William and Toby

Its worth checking out Drew Weston’s great book and Poltical Brain and his work here on framing and language around CC as its really helpful for thinking how we need to communicate to citizens http://www.huffingtonpost.com/drew-westen/speaking-with-americans-a_b_205598.html
http://ecoamerica.net/press/media/090520/truths

]]> By: William Shaw http://www.citizenrenaissance.com/2009/07/01/the-bathtub-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-1508 William Shaw Mon, 06 Jul 2009 15:58:54 +0000 http://www.citizenrenaissance.com/?p=1949#comment-1508 I'm inclined to agree with Toby, but on different grounds. There have been dozens of attempts to revisualise the problem but they haven't stuck yet, not because they fail, but because they succeed. They all depict the size and depth of the problem accurately, but that endorses the logic that sees the individual as insignificant. "Aviation is only 3% of the UK's emissions. If I give up flying it will only make an insignificant difference." For me the most potent activator is the timeline; we can't hear what Tim Smit just called "the screams from the future" because the future is unimaginably far away. Even if those screams are only a generation or two away. That's the distance we should seek to close. I’m inclined to agree with Toby, but on different grounds. There have been dozens of attempts to revisualise the problem but they haven’t stuck yet, not because they fail, but because they succeed.

They all depict the size and depth of the problem accurately, but that endorses the logic that sees the individual as insignificant. “Aviation is only 3% of the UK’s emissions. If I give up flying it will only make an insignificant difference.”

For me the most potent activator is the timeline; we can’t hear what Tim Smit just called “the screams from the future” because the future is unimaginably far away. Even if those screams are only a generation or two away. That’s the distance we should seek to close.

]]> By: jules http://www.citizenrenaissance.com/2009/07/01/the-bathtub-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-1473 jules Fri, 03 Jul 2009 11:02:24 +0000 http://www.citizenrenaissance.com/?p=1949#comment-1473 thanks toby my next blog will respond to this good point. thanks toby

my next blog will respond to this good point.

]]> By: Toby http://www.citizenrenaissance.com/2009/07/01/the-bathtub-effect/comment-page-1/#comment-1467 Toby Thu, 02 Jul 2009 07:16:46 +0000 http://www.citizenrenaissance.com/?p=1949#comment-1467 Hi Jules, the problem will always be the data. While the bathtub analogy is neat and evocative, you still have to back it up with data. The maths are in the image loud and clear: "twice as fast", so people will want to see the figures that back that up. Another problem is the time it takes to become conversant in the science of climate change. The Media has to present things in a particular format, one hopefully conducive to being read and enjoyed, and is most often written (necessarily it seems) by non-scientists. Climate change is a simple idea which has complex science behind it. In my experience of debating it, firm conclusions are impossible -- the planet is huge, weather is unpredictable, nothing so terrible has happened that civilisation has been rocked to its core, etc. There is nowhere anyone can look -- through a microscope, telescope or otherwise -- that shows metaphorical water rushing into a metaphorical bath twice as fast as it can drain away. Unless the data shows this clearly. And then you have interpretation. In short, I doubt finding the right metaphor is what lies between ignorance and wisdom. The changes you see and discuss here at Citizen Renaissance are multi-faceted and -- I have begun to believe -- unstoppable, bathtub effect or no. I'm an optimist who is not sure of anything except change. Change is the only constant. Can we wisely direct humanity's future? I believe so. Will we? I hope so. Keep up the good work old bean! Toby Hi Jules,

the problem will always be the data. While the bathtub analogy is neat and evocative, you still have to back it up with data. The maths are in the image loud and clear: “twice as fast”, so people will want to see the figures that back that up. Another problem is the time it takes to become conversant in the science of climate change. The Media has to present things in a particular format, one hopefully conducive to being read and enjoyed, and is most often written (necessarily it seems) by non-scientists. Climate change is a simple idea which has complex science behind it. In my experience of debating it, firm conclusions are impossible — the planet is huge, weather is unpredictable, nothing so terrible has happened that civilisation has been rocked to its core, etc. There is nowhere anyone can look — through a microscope, telescope or otherwise — that shows metaphorical water rushing into a metaphorical bath twice as fast as it can drain away. Unless the data shows this clearly. And then you have interpretation.

In short, I doubt finding the right metaphor is what lies between ignorance and wisdom. The changes you see and discuss here at Citizen Renaissance are multi-faceted and — I have begun to believe — unstoppable, bathtub effect or no. I’m an optimist who is not sure of anything except change. Change is the only constant. Can we wisely direct humanity’s future? I believe so. Will we? I hope so.

Keep up the good work old bean!

Toby

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